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  1. strypey strypey

    @yukiame @mjd "is the State also only a market actor". No. The state is a governing body that claims a monopoly of violence over a territory

    about a month ago from quitter.se
    1. strypey strypey

      @mjd @yukiame states used this monopoly to invent markets as a decentralized tool for provisioning large standing armies
      http://qttr.at/1r0a

      about a month ago from quitter.se
      1. strypey strypey

        @mjd @yukiame similar to the way states developed a lot of the technology behind the internet for military objectives
        http://qttr.at/1rmk

        about a month ago from quitter.se
        1. strypey strypey

          @mjd @yukiame states still defines and enforces the legal frameworks  (eg property rights)  that allow markets to function

          about a month ago from quitter.se
          1. strypey strypey

            @mjd @yukiame this is why # is used more like a bond than a currency, a speculative investment in which rich people can stash wealth

            about a month ago from quitter.se
            1. jeffcliff jeffcliff

              @strypey @mjd @yukiame storing wealth is important in a world with negative interest rates.  Savings allow for long term planning.

              about 16 days ago from quitter.se
              1. Matthew Davidson mjd

                @jeffcliff There's nothing objective about the world which necessitates negative interest rates; it's a policy decision made by governments "pushing on a string" to try to spur investment after 30 years of neoliberal deindustrialisation.

                about 15 days ago from web
              2. Matthew Davidson mjd

                @jeffcliff # rightly said that savings are a hedge against uncertainty. Unfortunately, since his time, governments taxing but not spending have drained savings out of the private sector, so now credit cards ("debtfare") are the safety net.

                about 15 days ago from web
                1. strypey strypey

                  @mjd "debtfare" wouldn't be so bad if states weren't making it harder and harder to declare bankruptcy, restarting the game as a new player

                  about 15 days ago from quitter.se
                2. strypey strypey

                  @mjd BTW I rechecked my blog post on the history of money. Nothing in there about states having to tax to spend. Once of us was confused?

                  about 15 days ago from quitter.se
                  1. Matthew Davidson mjd

                    @strypey It was the "find another way to fund the social functions currently overseen by governments" bit which, granted, doesn't _necessarily_ imply that taxes fund anything. "another way to conduct the social functions" might be better.

                    about 15 days ago from web
                    1. strypey strypey

                      @mjd ah, ok, I see the ambiguity. What I meant was *states* as a way of funding those functions, as opposed to using businesses or commons

                      about 15 days ago from quitter.se
                      1. strypey strypey

                        @mjd I'd prefer replacing states *and* corporations with commons and peer production, but that's only going to happen if a majority agree

                        about 15 days ago from quitter.se
                        1. strypey strypey

                          @mjd that's why I say we all implicitly agree to pay tax, by *not* agreeing to replace states with another system for public provisioning

                          about 15 days ago from quitter.se
                  2. Matthew Davidson mjd

                    @strypey But don't take my advice on prose style. I'm a student; just a machine for extruding long convoluted sentences under pressure.

                    about 15 days ago from web
                  3. jeffcliff jeffcliff

                    @strypey @mjd link?

                    about 15 days ago from quitter.se
                    1. strypey strypey

                      @jeffcliff http://qttr.at/1r0a

                      about 15 days ago from quitter.se
    2. Matthew Davidson mjd

      @yukiame @strypey Currency-issuing states never need to tax in anything but their own currency. Taxes don't finance spending; spending finances taxes. Where else would the first $ taxed come from? #

      about a month ago from web
      1. clacke clacke

        @mjd @strypey @yukiame The Hong Kong money supply comes from foreign currency. The M0 is required to be 100% backed by currency reserves. As the HKD is pegged to the USD, I'm assuming the entire reserve is USD.

        about a month ago from social.heldscal.la
        1. Matthew Davidson mjd

          @clacke @strypey @yukiame & everyone in the Eurozone is using a foreign currency not issued by a state at all. # had a better solution to what the Euro or USD pegging tries to fix: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bancor

          about a month ago from web
          1. clacke clacke

            @mjd @strypey EUR is a traditional state-issued currency except the state isn't a state. Isn't # just a bigger Euro?

            about 24 days ago from social.heldscal.la
            1. Matthew Davidson mjd

              @clacke Nope. The Bancor wouldn't be street money. It's just for settling international transactions. Member states would retain fiscal sovereignty. i.e. they issue ("spend") & redeem ("tax") local currency as they wish. #

              about 24 days ago from web
          2. strypey strypey

            @mjd @clacke so the HK dollar is backed by the violence monopoly of the US state, which seems right since the HK state doesn't have one.

            about 24 days ago from quitter.se
            1. strypey strypey

              @mjd @clacke the Euro is backed by the violence monopoly of NATO, which is backed up by the violence monopoly of the EU states and the US

              about 24 days ago from quitter.se
              1. clacke clacke

                @strypey Yes. What monopoly on force would be behind the #?

                about 24 days ago from social.heldscal.la
                1. strypey strypey

                  @clacke good question. Let me answer it with a question. What would guarantee its value as a currency? The the answer to that is your answer

                  about 24 days ago from quitter.se
    3. clacke clacke

      @strypey ... while also being a market actor. State goes "Here, I'll uphold law, order and defense of property and otherwise stay out. Except I'll be a monopsony on 50% of the goods and services, by taxing the other 50%.".

      about 24 days ago from social.heldscal.la