Conversation

Notices

  1. strypey strypey

    Am I the only one worried that so many activist organisations have supporters' personal data stored by corporations like NationBuilder?

    about 4 months ago from quitter.se
    1. Matthew Davidson mjd

      @strypey I used to be in the # This was one of the contributing factors in deciding to chuck it in: http://www.iww.org/guides/branch/socialmedia

      about 4 months ago from web
      1. Matthew Davidson mjd

        @strypey I emailed the guy responsible for this initiative, asking why he wanted to build the FBI a hit list. He replied we unfortunately had to use these tools "until we seize the means of production". What means of production?! We have them already sitting on our desks!

        about 4 months ago from web
      2. strypey strypey

        @mjd in this case people have already chosen to give their data to a corporation and the IWW is trying to subvert this to recruit them

        about 4 months ago from quitter.se
        1. strypey strypey

          @mjd what worries me more is organisations placing data people have entrusted to *them* in corporate-hosted platforms like NationBuilder

          about 4 months ago from quitter.se
          1. strypey strypey

            @mjd often without any permission from the people who gave them that data

            about 4 months ago from quitter.se
            1. strypey strypey

              @mjd the most extreme case I've seen is the NZ Greens entering the entire NZ electoral roll into NationBuilder!

              about 4 months ago from quitter.se
        2. Matthew Davidson mjd

          @strypey I see it more as encouraging # members to join # et al., and to expose non-members as having activist sympathies. I can't imagine the NSA wouldn't be glad of the assistance.

          about 4 months ago from web
          1. strypey strypey

            @mjd that's a risk, but it depends what the # actually use # for. If it's only outreach to non-members, what's the problem?

            about 4 months ago from quitter.se
            1. Matthew Davidson mjd

              @strypey During WWI IWW members in #, # and elsewhere were rounded up and imprisoned (or worse) in large numbers. If the NSA has Facebook's data on members & sympathisers of activist groups, why wouldn't it be used in some future process of "extreme vetting"?

              about 4 months ago from web
              1. Matthew Davidson mjd

                @strypey "The protests are outta control. Causing huge problems. Bad. Tough measures have been used in the past. I would be willing to use far worse. We're looking into it. We're looking into a lot of things."

                about 4 months ago from web
              2. strypey strypey

                @mjd sure, it's a risk, but using networked comms at all puts us at risk of surveillance.That's not in itself a reason not to use them.

                about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                1. strypey strypey

                  @mjd especially because *not* using them in societies where most people *do* makes dissidents stand out like dogs balls

                  about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                  1. strypey strypey

                    @mjd I'm not defending # or saying there aren't better ways to use networked comms for political purposes, I think there are

                    about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                    1. strypey strypey

                      @mjd but if the # is using as a means of discovery for potential members, so existing members still don't need a # account, well...

                      about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                2. Matthew Davidson mjd

                  @strypey I know Wobblies who do everything (since the 1970s) pseudonymously. Sure, intercept an email and figuring out who you are from that isn't hard, but you need to make some effort and know pretty much who you're looking for.

                  about 4 months ago from web
                  1. Matthew Davidson mjd

                    @strypey But enough metadata constitutes data, and Facebook et al. have enough metadata. Stick a Facebook widget on your site, and identifying your visitors is just a database query for the NSA.

                    about 4 months ago from web
                    1. strypey strypey

                      @mjd true. Would you object to a button for the # FB page that was just an ordinary linked image, not a "widget"?

                      about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                      1. Matthew Davidson mjd

                        @strypey Sure. The preamble to the # constitution is about "forming the structure of the new society within the shell of the old". The new society requires # http://www.iww.org/PDF/Constitutions/CurrentIWWConstitution.pdf #

                        about 4 months ago from web
                        1. strypey strypey

                          @mjd sure, but isn't FB part of "the shell of the old"?

                          about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                          1. Matthew Davidson mjd

                            @strypey You can't agitate, educate, organise withing # FB does the organising, and determines which, if any, users hear your agitation and education, as # (via you) observes. http://qttr.at/1pm3

                            about 4 months ago from web
                        2. strypey strypey

                          @mjd GNU Social is more a replacement for Twitter or Slack than for FB. # gets closer to the range of functions that FB includes

                          about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                          1. Matthew Davidson mjd

                            @strypey I dunno. I set up a # account a couple of years ago to check out # integration and just thought "Is this it? Is this what all the fuss is about?" The vanity value of feeling important enough to be surveilled appears the killer feature.

                            about 4 months ago from web
                            1. bsmall2 bsmall2

                              @mjd @strypey There's something addicting and distracting about fb, hard to focus on one thing, to keep track of your original intentions.

                              about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                            2. strypey strypey

                              @mjd FB feature set is nothing unprecedented but its value is squared by integrating it all under a single login and cubed by network effect

                              about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                            3. strypey strypey

                              @mjd I love # for public-facing status updates, but that's all it does, and all it's every likely to do.

                              about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                            4. strypey strypey

                              @mjd FB adds (amongst others) private messaging; photo galleries; live chat (w/ voice+video), video hosting, integrated events calendar

                              about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                          2. Matthew Davidson mjd

                            @strypey Damnit. You started me looking into this again. Here's "Eben # on #, # and Government Surveillance" a year before # and right on the money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJCczbSF-B8

                            about 4 months ago from web
                            1. strypey strypey

                              @mjd again, I'm not defending FB. But good luck transitioning people to good replacements without listening to what needs it serves for them

                              about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                              1. bsmall2 bsmall2

                                @strypey @mjd Seeing young people from Japan, Phillipines, Italy, USA, Indonesia, n Vietnam in the house last year Most used iPhones with FB

                                about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                              2. bsmall2 bsmall2

                                @strypey @mjd An young guy from Indonesia said young Japanese people use Line, It's hard to get older people off FB speed and convenience.

                                about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                          3. bsmall2 bsmall2

                            @strypey @mjd How about # ? I'll check out # I've been trying to move conversations to D*, but it's hard to acclimate people

                            about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                            1. Matthew Davidson mjd

                              @bsmall2 I've not tried # I couldn't see anything indispensable about what # does that # with a generous char limit can't do. As a former # zealot, these (federated) services should all be readily duplicated by Drupal install profiles as well.

                              about 4 months ago from web
                              1. bsmall2 bsmall2

                                @mjd I like being able to use markdown. I feel like I can do quick blog posts conveniently with Diaspora...

                                about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                            2. strypey strypey

                              @bsmall2 @mjd with due respect to the # devs, the only feature it offers over GS is IM (on some pods) and I find it harder to use

                              about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                              1. bsmall2 bsmall2

                                @strypey @mjd I'm used to D* now. My feeling is I'll have to learn to self host and get people started by setting up their accounts.

                                about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                              2. bsmall2 bsmall2

                                @strypey @mjd I'm imagining get-togethers where we help each other set up accounts and on-line connections to each other. Education is key?

                                about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                                1. strypey strypey

                                  @bsmall2 I can't help but think if we could do in-person get-togethers we wouldn't feel so desperate to clone proprietary "social" media ;)

                                  about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                                  1. strypey strypey

                                    @bsmall2 but yes, I think building free code comms networks around groups of people we actually know might be the way to break the oligopoly

                                    about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                              3. clacke clacke

                                @strypey @bsmall2 @mjd Diaspora offers private conversations.

                                about 4 months ago from social.heldscal.la
                                1. strypey strypey

                                  @clacke @bsmall2 @mjd true D* does have PM, which # doesn't, but it's still nowhere near the feature set of # (more's the pity)

                                  about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                            3. strypey strypey

                              @bsmall2 @mjd # could use some people to help spit and polish the user interface, but the back-end and feature set are pretty solid

                              about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                              1. bob bob

                                @strypey @bsmall2 @mjd gnusocial is great as a simple and federated "Twitter replacement" for purely public stuff, but I think Hubzilla is the more sophisticated although less used system. What Hubzilla needs is not so much features as just general promotion.

                                about 4 months ago from social.freedombone.net
                                1. maiyannah maiyannah

                                  @bob @mjd @strypey @bsmall2 They're not entirely the same use cases.  Hubzilla (or Friendica) seem to do better as a sort of replacement for Facebook, I'd argue, rather than Twitter.

                                  about 4 months ago from community.highlandarrow.com
                                  1. bob bob

                                    @maiyannah @strypey @bsmall2 @mjd yes, although there's some amount of overlap between those two types of system.

                                    about 4 months ago from social.freedombone.net
                                    1. maiyannah maiyannah

                                      @bob @mjd @strypey @bsmall2 Oh certainly, the intention of me pointing that out was to indicate they aren't mutually exclusive, or in competition.

                                      about 4 months ago from community.highlandarrow.com
                                      1. strypey strypey

                                        @bsmall2 @mjd @bob I agree with @maiyannah GS is for short public messages ie microblog. HZ supports many more functions and private sharing

                                        about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                                  2. strypey strypey

                                    @maiyannah your interjection here is totally cool, but I just want to note that you were giving me shit for doing exactly this some time ago

                                    about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                                2. myzim myzim

                                  @bob @bsmall2 @mjd @strypey what about loadaverage, what is this form?

                                  about 4 months ago from mysim.online
                                  1. strypey strypey

                                    @myzim # is an instance of #

                                    about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                                3. bsmall2 bsmall2

                                  @bob @strypey @mjd It's like anything the more time you put into it, the more it makes sense. # # http://qttr.at/1pyp

                                  about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                                4. reality reality

                                  @bob @strypey @bsmall2 @mjd does it inter-operate with gs?

                                  about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                                  1. strypey strypey

                                    @reality # inter-operates with GS to some degree. # is a monoculture, @mike says federation w/ GS breaks its privacy model

                                    about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                            4. strypey strypey

                              @bsmall2 @mjd here's a basic intro to setting up with #
                              http://qttr.at/1kmv

                              about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                              1. bsmall2 bsmall2

                                @strypey @mjd  I got started, http://qttr.at/1pq5 . I like it but get feeling it will be hard to acclimate new people to it.

                                about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                          4. bsmall2 bsmall2

                            @strypey @mjd For people on only small screens, using Messenger and Line it's hard to get them into a browser to create a free account.

                            about 4 months ago from quitter.se
                          5. bsmall2 bsmall2

                            @strypey @mjd If a "friend" makes an account, it doesn't work unless I set up their aspects. I guess workshops or classes are needed...

                            about 4 months ago from quitter.se